The gun itself Cannot be rendered safe without the chamber being empty. In that case, the argument that any gun is better than no gun might be correct but thats as far as it goes. Gunfights can happen that fast. While millions of Americans keep and/or bear GLOCKs and GLOCK-like striker-fired pistols without mishap, mishaps do sometimes occur.Let's face it: the average gun owner has lousy trigger discipline. The Glock 17M and Glock 19X are two designs with Gen 5 features. Too big, to heavy although I can cock the hammer on the draw with no problem (passive firing pin models). So, there are at least 2 actions required to get a round to fire after removing it from a pocket. The most common objection was something is better than nothing (or words to that effect). If thats a problem, dont carry a firearm. He thinks one big long post thats all one sentence is not a mistake. 7. The fix was to add a safety. In addition to this, some manufacturers have added manual lever safeties to their firearms and XDS has the grip safety as well. Even though they don't have . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Do not ever suggest they change a true classic. I felt a few of the points that were raised had enough merit to discuss further. Safety rule number 1 a gun is always loaded. Or a musket? All the out of battery safeties do is, in one way or another, block the hammer from providing that energy to the pin until the gun is fully locked into battery. Not exactly. The S&W EZ has a grip safety and a good trigger pull. Unfortunately, some may not and I have no idea which do and which do not. I only know my own lifes experiences, fwiw, too many LEOs cant hit chit no matter what the tool, and Im an honorary. You've only seen one page. I carry a 5 shot .357 magnum revolver a good deal of the time. Long story short, I let it be known that I thought carrying with an empty chamber is a mistake. Heres a news flash, ever since Adam and Eve ate the serpents apple were all fallible. Absolutely YES!! I've never been to the range with you and I know . KAER adhere to the business philosophy of customer first, service first, quality first, and provide our customers with high-quality products and perfect service.. We are a professional manufacturer dedicated to the production of gun safes, safe box, pistol safe and other security products. The Glock 19 pistol was initially produced in 1988. Until I do, its one in the chamber with safety engaged and hammer down on a DA/SA pistol. My AR is half loaded with the mag in but unchambered. #5. Options are good. I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. However, there still isnt a compelling reason to carry a gun or keeping one for home defense that isnt loaded which cant be gotten around with a bit of training, a bit of brains, or a bit of extra gear. The best line of all time is Dirty Harrys. in the 20th and 21st centuries, empty chamber is just retarded. So instead of just grabbing said gun from the night stand and chambering a round, I should keep it loaded and put it in a lock box so that I can fumble around with a tiny key and try and put it in a tiny hole in the dark? I just grabbed a shirt from the laundry pile. Hmaag [CC BY-SA 3.0], via Wikimedia CommonsTodays revolvers have a flat hammer. NO - any responsible gun owner should have some reservation until enough information has been provided. I carried a 1911 for awhile and the duty holsters made for 1911s have the retaining strap that goes across the back of slide, which also blocks the hammer from firing pin. As for kids, had 3 daughters, all knew all weapons were loaded, all were shooting bb guns by 5, learned safety and marksmanship, and by ten, the oldest could out shoot me with the Smith 9mm semi, steel. Being a klutz is one thing. I hope to later, but I just moved to a state that allows it, and our first child just turned one. Not a hard and fast rule. Confused fool. Kind of like Youtube is determined to censor everything but SJWs and cat videos. Or even sex. I think the controversy is whether or not a loaded magazine with an empty chamber constitutes an unloaded gun. I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Um. As someone from MS you gotta tell me where this full auto shoot was. Amen! Ho Hum, Well written Mine, of course, is in the latter, and it's held up well to a lot of shooting. And, it actually impeded officers ability to hit a target. I also like the guy getting thrown across the ally when he gets hit with both barrels of the shotgun through those 3/4 boards, but even better is when the same happens from a .45 Colt round. Beyond being "The Original" Glock, which won the company favor with the Austrians then the world, the Glock G17 is arguably the most popular Glock pistol model on the planet.. There was also some discussion of Fairbairn and Sykes experience in the Shanghai police with what is commonly referred to as Israeli carry. There are some inherent problems there. Whats the controversy? Few indeed even care about SA revolvers anymore, or even know they exist, or care about the firing mechanism. . They have defense of the State, of their comrades, or of other citizens. It is also the choice of many Canadian cops services. the number of people out there who keep a single-action revolver as a home defense. Since I do not carry(Los Angeles County), my handguns are ready very quickly. Cocked and locked . Even though everyone who has ever used and examined a SA revolver can easily see that the firing pin is ALWAYS in contact with the primer when the hammer is down, if the chamber under it has a round in it?, And, again, absolutism that is far too easy to refute. Well your odds of dying of heart disease is about a thousand times more likely than dying from a criminal attack, so, maybe something to think about. The Glock handgun is the favored handgun of police worldwide. Im not a big believer in the the bad guy will just take your gun and use it against you school of thought. Most learn it in the third grade, so how scary hard can it be? If you forget to check the chamber just one time in you life its Sayounara . Now, what about those darn useless novelty CCH badges? It has good stopping power and it only slightly has more recoil . They do have a half cock notch that you could use to carry on a loaded chamber, but theres a reason they say, Dont go off half-cocked. But no self-defense. . For that matter, I dont take seriously anyone who carries a revolver for self-defense. When she holstered her Glock .40 it went off and the bullet went down her leg utterly destroying it. Carrying on an empty chamber is probably one of the most common beginner mistakes I hear. Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional. Not carrying a round in the chamber does indeed provide you a 100% chance of not having the gun go off in the holster. If the pin has enough mass, it will fire the round, chambered or not, hammer blocked or not, trigger pulled or not, out-of-battery safeties, etc. Thats a bunch of bologna written by writers who know nothing about guns. More bad advice, did the author not learn from his first mistake? So you have no quibble with the line; If dropped, the hammer could contact the primer and therefore, fire., in relation to SA revolvers? Just old school geeze, too used to doing the hard chit the same way, but it worked for me. Ive dropped a loaded Glock once, actually the only pistol Ive ever dropped in my life. Did dad work for a local Florida PD not to be named? I would hope that all semi-auto handguns have some sort of striker/firing-pin block that absolutely prevents detonation from dropping the pistol. She was brave. 1:43:08-1:43:32. Glock G21 439. at Guns.com. Modern handguns are designed to be carried with a loaded chamber. Lets talk about the internal safety features and the facts of why Glocks are great handguns.Jordy Bucks well worn Glock 20 is carried daily. This is a particularly great idea. which for them is unwise because it feels utterly unsafe to do so I have for almost 40 years and have it properly holstered. I notice that you had to go look it up though. I carry my Jericho the same way. Next, there was some discussion about GLOCKs. And I include all the copy cat weapons as well as they are as common as the common cold. I may not have the time to chamber a round if a BG is close enough. Old school, extract, thumb, trigger finger, rinse n repeat often until autopilot takes over. I can raise and lower the bolt slowly in complete silence. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_3',116,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');Still, I keep hearing how unsafe Glocks are, from people who have never handled one and essentially know nothing about handguns in general. Thats intentional. Excuse me, but the inventor of the Linebaugh cartridges and custom gunsmith in Powell Wyoming is JOHN Linebaugh. Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Didnt say I didnt know how, just not much use for one Bad guy dies. So whats up? Didnt fire..interesting. * if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_5',119,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0');The danger comes from dangerous gun handling and not following safe gun handling rules. I dont know how high Id have to go to get it to ignite, but I figure Im never going to carry my piece 8+ off the floor, (seeing as how thats the height of most ceilings). Glocks have a blade in the trigger that is very light so that if the pistol is dropped, the inertia of the fall will not pull the trigger ( as the pistol is partially cocked). without going into details i have it set up that theres no way anybody gets in my house at night without making enough noise for a long enough time that i wont have enough time to wake up and get my wits about me and get my firearm and charge it while on my way to the threat Glocks have only mode of carry once you chamber a round. Or some jackass was pocket carrying his G43 without a holster and something snagged the trigger. On TTAG anyone can use any name at any time, and that makes it really confusing. Check out this post which is one of the most popular of all time. Which, of course, is why its better to keep your self-defense gun be it a concealed carry pistol or home defense gun or whatever with a round in the chamber. Best thing you can do is buy a pistol that you can safely carry loaded with one in the chamber. As a top performer in reliability and safety tests, it quickly entered into the Austrian military and police service. like i said Between the trigger safety, the firing pin safety and the drop safety I feel very comfortable carrying it chambered. OK, this isnt enough for you? In fact, it uses S&W Shield Plus magazines. (I don't think any of us are going to try to pocket carry a 1911 or a Glock 17.) Do u carry an AR all day too? I wouldnt worry about it. If you cant respect the power and danger of an automobile why would you think you could be trusted with a firearm at all let alone one without a safety? Ammoland eh? The 43 chambered for the 9x19 cartridge, along with its immediate predecessor the .380 caliber Model 42, were not the . Usually I just get to see Colt SAAs with 16 chamber cylinders. Is it a lot of work to train to the level where you never get it wrong? P.T. That chit will get you *illed in a real shtf. But otherwise it still is a pretty good gunfight scene. If you want a common username better grab it quick though. We keep our mouths shut, myob, and avoid praising glocks. It's offered in a wide range of cartridges, from .22LR to the .357 Magnum. Your family is worth it. I thing Mossad guys are well trained, just saying. The Glock Gen 4 and Gen 5 models have actually ended up being popular with civilians and self-defense shooters alike. Not too long ago, we posted an article (by me!) I still get the occasional email notification. If the slide goes back far enough to be out of battery, then the gun will just fire out of battery. While the bad guy is picking up the decoy gun and trying to shoot you with it, you draw your real piece with a round loaded. Most 1911s come with a half cock safety, but again, you would have to ensure it was engaged properly and its prone to breakage. If you are so scared of a striker fired trigger, then why not get a hammer fired gun? I have had cops point shotgunms and Rvolvurs at me, made me nervous, now their pointing Glocks at me, and that frightens me to the point of shaking. When the term "loaded" means a round in the chamber and you need to carry, either open carry or concealed, with an unloaded gun, training to be faster with your draw will be very important. When you carry, do you keep it chambered or do you keep it unchambered so you'd have to actually chamber your gun when you need to use it? The practice of empty chamber carry continued with the introduction of magazine-fed, semi-automatic pistols. There are tons of features that make it worth your consideration, starting with its trademark durability and flexibility. No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. And my Ruger .357. There is no way to put a round in the chamber without leaving the striker cocked, and there is no safety. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Weve beaten this dead horse enough. So when do you get to be a klutz if youve taken the time to train those reactions until as the experts say you not only get it right, you cant get it wrong? Mad about covers it. You cant just twitch and accidentally shoot one. I think I can answer that one. The Glock 19 is one of the most popular models of Glock that is available on the market. If you are a dumb person who cannot immediately see why it is dumb, go to Youtube and watch dumb people like you dying in a hail of bullets while they struggle with the slides on their unchambered guns. I will still carry unchambered. I always wanted to see in a western someone who knew he was about to get into a gunfight slip that 6th round into his Colt SAA. Nov 11, 2010 (Edited) Dingus said: To gain confidence, do this: Take your G19 and holster to the range. If youre going to do something like defend yourself with a firearm. I used to carry a Walther PPQ. You learned something. You hit the nail on the head with "comfortable", but that is subjective. The anti-GLOCK crowd and they are nothing if not noisy also raised the objection that since a striker-fired pistol is so easy to discharge (a simple pull of a relatively light trigger) then its inherently dangerous to have those guns in a home with small children. But now at my age I know me and I know my weapons and youll be gambling with your life if you engage me thinking you know whether there is one in the chamber. It has a safety, but I dont really care about that. Literally has nothing to do with firearm safety. Keep your finger off of it and your should be good to go. I now have a Walther P99 (OK, Im a Walther fan). Not thinking human beings. Perhaps why they werent interested in this modification, even though the investor designed it to be visually unobtrusive and to require minimal modifications to the original design. I am lacking a rapier and main gauche though so maybe not ready for the six fingered man. If waking up to a noise or shadow, I want the piece in my hand as simply and easily as possible, meaning it lays in the headboard. There is also one of an off duty cop pulling up his pants and firing his clip draw equipped pistol. I put into the chamber a primed case w/o powder or bullet. Consider this, if everyone carried a weapon in condition 3, how many mass shootings would there be? What I meant was: As all who have examined a REGULAR single action revolver, like a Colt SAA or the old three screw Rugers before the transfer bar, would know. One in the chamber is NOT ALWAYS the best option. A loaded GLOCK, some of the comments went, is susceptible to the dreaded GLOCK ND (negligent discharge). You would probably be more likely to survive in a Banzai charge. Obviously carrying concealed greatly reduces the odds of your gun being taken, but that doesnt mean that precautions arent in order. In a way, the GLOCK trigger is similar to a double action revolver trigger. And my Glock 17. Situational risk assessment. Go peddle your homosexual fantasies elsewhere. If soft iwb holster freaks you out then get a nice, quality leather or kydex holster. She had the edge, rock steady hands of a brain surgeon. On Firefox for my Linux machine it even goes right to the place on the page I was when I saved. Many people think walking around with a loaded gun is dangerous, irresponsible, and paranoid. For all those terrified at Condition One semi-autos, a percentage carried hunting shotguns afield for upland game and waterfowl every one with the . What youre proposing is more, Are glocks, or other strikers without safeties, truly safe?. Because that argument is stupid in the first place, because the entire discussion is about *carrying* not about whether you should carry. 1. 30 years carrying, 20 in the military with 6 combat deployments. Running this way I am even more vigilant about how I handle the gun. Hell, Colt still makes the Single Action Army. To sum up: there were a few objections to my original post that, on their face, had some truth to them. No permits needed, no interference from the State. Some say it makes the trigger drag, but it doesnt on mine. The first Glock safety that you will interact with is the trigger safety, which takes the form of a spring-loaded lever located in the center of the trigger. My home defense guns are locked and loaded ready to go. You just have to get comfortable with it. They are all single-action guns even if the marketing guys play games saying they are 1.5-action or whatever. But it used to work fine, a year or so before that. Um, Smith & Wesson doesnt use a transfer bar, they use a hammer block. I got rid of that one, I didnt really need it, but now, sigh, I wish I had it back. Is a cheap one as good as a safe from, say, a Liberty or Rhino? One other one was very tragic. So that argument is irrelevant. There are a lot of older pistols manufactured without a drop safety feature. Question: If it lands on its muzzle could it not go out-of-battery? Let's talk about wh. Then you have the big, scary, single-action magnums by IWI (the BFR) Freedom Arms and custom guns from Jeff Linebaugh. Yep, if you havent actually ever been in a gunfight before you can shut the f#*k up about what or how I carry. I am the same way, my kids randomly jump, hug or accidentally collide with me on a regular basis. Folks need to do what they are comfortable with though. I carry "Mexican" and don't want to end up like Plaxico Burress. Practice holstering and unholstering without a round and see if the trigger is pulled. When the fight starts, ejecting a live round onto the ground, or hearing the click of a empty chamber, will just mess up your day, maybe your last day. It is also popular for law enforcement and for use as a backup weapon. I have kids, but they have been taught that if it can go bang assume it will if the trigger is touched. Try it with any style sidearm. Again, carrying with an empty chamber isnt wrong, but it just isnt quite right. By all means, carry what you are competent to handle effectively and safely. The Glock Model 48 slimline 9mm is a state-of-the-art fighting pistol with a small grip frame any cop can master. Some might even have second strike capability, which is the real holy grail. PS: There was a 12 yo kid recently that subdued an attacker with a common socket wrench after Dad missed 39 times with a pistol. Holstered the Glock like that into kydex holster. Does the Glock fire then? It likewise utilizes a cocking system that is unique amongst striker-fired pistols. That carries over to shooting, believe it or not. Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Do you, punk? It became the norm to carry with an empty chamber. Since the pin must have considerable energy to fire the primer charge, and then must expend that energy quickly through a sudden stop, it really doesnt matter, because the available object to provide the sudden deceleration needed to drive the pin into the round is almost certainly going to be the ground, and the round must be in line with the inertia, which, if provided by gravity instead of the firearm itself, must be downwards. I too have a P89. I submit never. I tease my friends when I can see their chamber indicator, I listened to guys who had been there.. And the latter is where a Glock is dangerous as is *any* other firearm. Its your right to be retarded. But the real benefit is in the noise. Personally I dont just carry for my own personal defense, but also the defense of my country, my comrades and other citizens. Kathy Jackson suggests that doing this safely comes down to two things, equipment and habits. If I was gona carry an empty gun Id carry a full sized 1911, that way if I had to throw it at somebody it would weigh enough to hurt when it him them. But youll likely carry for years and years, manipulating said weapon an uncountable number of times in the process. Over at gunssavelives.net, Dan Cannon has unearthed the SAFE-DRAW system for GLOCK brand GLOCK pistols.SAFE-DRAW gives the Austrian-born pistol an initial 17 pound trigger pull. A few weeks went by & I realized I was safe. I have these 2 hidden and had mounted in my house. so the theory still stands, if you dont want a negligent discharge, dont be negligent. link to What is a Pistol Caliber Carbine. So Move. Well you can either use it as a gun or as a brickI like mine to be carried like a gun. But people *MODIFY* (for chrissake) their Glocks trying to make the trigger compete with a 1911, then wonder why they shot their foot off. When I carry a semiautomatic pistol for self defense, the chamber is loaded and the safety is on. Sykes wrote their highly influential book, " Shooting To Live," based on their experiences with the Shanghai Police Department. Pray the gay away gov. If my shooting was up to par with my driving Id be like Lena Miculek. the department said it was the pistols fault. Im not interested in Israeli carry of a firearm. Doesnt come into play until youve already fired 5 times. Who honestly gives a F*ck what someone else chooses to do. Still disagree? When I was a lot younger, I was riding horses with some friends. I carry all my guns chambered. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It comes down to your comfort, training and repetitive use. What you are overlooking is the odds. The claim is that because Glocks have no safety and a super light trigger, they accidentally shoot people. . I really would like to know if theres a response to my comments. Is it just something one has to get used to? . They're fun, handy, and can be very practical. Have you ever negligently ran a red light? Now getting older, I have trouble with body positions for competitions, so I dont enter very many club competitions anymore. I want something that goes bang when I pull the trigger, and I could care less how heavy or gritty that might be. Theres a problem with absolutism: youre proven wrong too easily. Thats why the old timers carried them on an empty chamber. Actually I carry a revolver, which is 1000% better at typical bad breath self defense ranges than an AR and 100% better than a semi-auto pistol that will get pushed out of battery on a contact shot. Well saving room for some ice cream after dinner is a bit higher on my list than any damn LDL or HDL mumbo jumbo. They make it look soooo easy in the movies! Id rather they stop production than change a design thats gone on unchanged for as long as it has. I carry one in the chamber of my ruger P89 with 17 rounds in the magazine. Just go to there web site, or go to your gun store for more information. I thought it was just the cops and regulars of the IDF. Well, now, lets analyze this a bit deeper, shall we? I never carried a gun before my G27. The odds of a holster obstruction triggering a Glock in that case is an acceptable risk due to the greater risk of being too slow. No kids at home anymore so no worry there. But how often are you a klutz when handling or holstering your firearm? I submit extremely unlikely. Didnt check that the gun was clear. Never mind the others. Uberti, for instance, makes some models with a transfer bar safety and also a few with a floating firing pin, which drops below the channel to the primer when the hammer is fully forward and can thus be carried fully loaded. As stated above, Glocks are safe. Seattle is like a miniature version from a driving perspective. YouTube it. An old retired civil servant who used to clean toilets in a federal building living off a small pension and social security. They ended up sticking to their story and making a big political deal out of it. Nothing is more dangerous than a little knowledge. You need to load the gun, aim and fire while under stress in the event that you actually need to use it. If carry my Glock its in a solid Crossbreed holster with one in the chamber. Glock 17. And we all make mistakes. The others can safely be carried with a round under the hammer, with little to no chance of firing if the hammer should be hit or snagged. An officer was chasing a man down a stairwell with his pistol drawn and the man was shot, but apparently, he was not actually a criminal. As one gun writer said years ago, its amazing someone was not smart enough to hire a good gun savvy lawyer and sue Glock out of existence with all the accidents this pistol has caused. Bear in mind that all Glock pistols are striker fired and are have no manual safeties. Even though everyone who has ever used and examined a SA revolver can easily see that the firing pin is ALWAYS in contact with the primer when the hammer is down, if the chamber under it has a round in it? When the time comes that you actually need your carry weapon things are going to happen really fast. Itll never come out to get cleaned, the retention will never fail, the gun will never fall out when you unbelt to take a crap in other words you dont make mistakes. Carry it in your home in the holster you're going to use in public, without a round in the chamber, but with the striker in the ready position or "cocked" and see if you have an issue with the trigger being pulled. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'guntradition_com-leader-1','ezslot_8',113,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-guntradition_com-leader-1-0');I do know one engineer who figured out that if it was dropped from 221 feet and it lands on the right angle squarely on its barrel, it could possibly go off, but the bullet would immediately strike the ground and not do much after that. What is the I.33 for humidor and candle or Grndtliche Beschreibung der Kunst des Fechtens for bananas?;-). I have no issue using any of my Glocks as a SD gun, nor do I have any issue using any of my 1911s, any of my revolvers, or any of my other guns. 4 under extreme stress you may short stroke it. Glock is a brand of polymer-framed, short recoil-operated, locked-breech semi-automatic pistols designed and produced by Austrian manufacturer Glock Ges.m.b.H.. A Glock is a reputable brand name of pistols, and the weight of the trigger pull can mean the difference in between a firearm firing and not shooting. But, on the bright side, ammoland just revamped their comment section so comments now dont take days/never to show up. Me personally I carry a snap cap in the chamber, so if some lucky bastard grabs my gun and shoots hes about to be dead. Someone who wants to spend a couple thou on a gun should be more than willing to put the energy into learning how to use it safely. So in 2019, are you telling a revolver carrier to carry only 4 bullets instead of five?? Two is one, one is none. Frankly, most of us should be more concerned about our cholesterol anyway. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. as for being out in public goes if somebody gets the drop on me with a knife or firearm at super close range i figure that im only going to be 50/50 on that anyway Older single action revolvers or those still manufactured without a hammer block/transfer bar are theoretically more prone to discharge back in the day when you ride a horse as the drop from that position could allow the pistol to rotate muzzle up when it lands. Sometimes I ask a question. I know some people , maybe most people , will be just fine carrying a Glock with a loaded chamber , but all the reasons people give for not are not 100% wrong either . Yes Sir I do and the ones scattered in the house also. This is not remotely comparable to carrying a semiauto with an empty chamber, where the slide must be racked to make the gun ready to fire.